2008 02 21: “LIVER TVRCX DAN PAVS” (RATHER TURKISH THAN POPISH)

“LiVeR TVRCX DaN PaVS” (RaTHeR TuRKiSH THaN PoPiSH)

Fwd: “LIVER TVRCX DAN PAVS” (Rather Turkish than Popish)‏
From: leo young (leoyoung1999@yahoo.com)
Sent: 21 February 2008 19:26:29
To: troy
Note: forwarded message attached.

      _________________________________________________________

–Forwarded Message Attachment–
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:39:19 -0800
From: leoyoung1999@yahoo.com
Subject: “LIVER TVRCX DAN PAVS” (Rather Turkish than Popish)
To: [PHIL]

Dear Philip ,
the sad news that Father Thomas Michel SJ has been
involved in a car accident after our meeting in May
was given to me by  Kemalettin Süslü the brother of my
wife who originaly invited Thomas Michel SJ to Oslo.
If you check on the net you will  soon realize that
Kemalettin Süslü is a man dedicated to inter-faith
dialogue and tollerance at the highest levels in the
last few years on behalf of the true Islamic faith and
his Master Fethullah Gülen  , and there is no reason
for him to lie on a tragedy like this. So I hope you
can spread this info and remember dear Phil I dont
need to spread lies or create false statements , you
should know me better then that by now. My wife is
Turkish and so is the brother ,  and is definetely
true that I rather be a Turkish supporter then a
Popish one...so as you can see I actualy  took
literaly the saying "LIVER TVRCX DAN PAVS"
Regards,
Leo Lyon Zagami
now
Khaled Saifullah Khan

--- Philip wrote: > Gentlemen, > > > > A highly interesting interview on the previous 19th > of February. First, as > an aside, regarding the Dutch "sea beggars" or > "water-geuzen" as they are > called by us Dutch, you may find the following > Wikipedia informing (it > includes also pictures of coinage and ornamentation > dating from that era > (round and about)): > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geuzen_medals > > > > If I may share my humble opinion on the matter > surrounding Leo having had a > friendly encounter with Jesuit Fra Michel, I would > say this. In matters of > such controversy, as Eric already pointed out, it is > tantamount for Leo to > put all the cards on the table and let the evidence > speak for itself. Having > a background in science I know the value and > authority of buttressing claims > (theory) with evidence and/or consistent logical > reasoning (which, for all > practical purposes, by default is symbolic inductive > reasoning or simply: > mathematics). Leo claims that Fra Michel was > involved in a car accident, > seemingly causal to his encounter with Leo. I urge > Leo therefore, for sake > of his credibility, that he submits to us - the > research collective - > evidence for this claim. That is, supply evidence > that indeed Michel > currently is in a comatose state and render evidence > for the underlying > cause. By the same token however, since this is not > something personal > against Leo, I would say the same for Greg when he > wrote the article on > Slats Grobnik and his Jesuit encounter. Receiving a > letter from the Jesuit > Superior General is no small event and the research > collective would be most > grateful to be able to lay their eyes on something > as exclusive and proof > definitive as this letter. Also, the signature of > Nicholas may prove to be > of some future comparative merit. Therefore I humbly > request both Leo and > Greg to surrender evidence, supporting their > respective claims, to the > research collective and as such minimize confusion > and controversy. > > > > In addition, I would venture to make a general > remark regarding vigilance. > Although it is beyond question that vigilance is a > sure virtue in this > treacherous counter-intelligence rife field of > society critical > investigation and activism, it is perhaps also > worthy of consideration that > hyper-vigilance (over-abundance of vigilance) can be > as detrimental to > (investigative) progress as would be hypo-vigilance > (or lack of vigilance). > In biology, vigilance is absolutely vital to meet > and stave off impending > danger but squandering too much energy and resources > on vigilance can have a > debilitating influence on the growth and ultimate > survival of any organism. > However, the only question that matters of course is > how much vigilance is > sufficient and how much is overkill. Again, I think > the answer to that > question can be found in the merit of evidence. In > short, evidence (or > proof, ideally) is the best suited remedy to erase > controversy in matters > such as this or in any matter for that matter (pun > not intended). In > addition, I am a big proponent of asking > confrontational questions instead > of merely doing behind the back speculation in which > (unwarranted) > assumptions are likely to creep in and > misunderstanding is fueled. To recap, > transparency on all relevant levels should be king > to the truth-seeker IMO > and to this end the concept of evidence forms the > linchpin. > > > > That being said, I think it is always a treat to the > ear and intellect to > hear either Leo and Eric speak on Greg's show. In > fact, I would go so far as > to state that both are my favorite interviewees and > both are great > communicators of knowledge and information and I > think that the community > stands to gain much every time one of them is on. > Both of you are great > inspirers and implicit motivators, at least that's > how I feel about it. It > will be a privilege to hear you two come on Greg's > show again and talk > things through so as to hopefully alleviate > misunderstandings and arrive at > some kind of stable common ground. > > > > Therefore, I am looking forward to again hearing Leo > and Eric being > interviewed together on Greg's show. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Phil

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